Connected Thermostatic Heads - Report on my research

Development
1

Hello,

In this topic, I propose to give you an update on my research regarding connected thermostatic heads, which allow you to control a radiator.
I will update this topic as soon as I have news!

:right_arrow::right_arrow: [Edit on October 13, 2023] Read the message marked as « Solution », it is my latest update on the subject.

A bit of context

It’s been a few years now that I’ve been following with great interest the evolution of Gladys and of course of @pierre-gilles. He gave me the desire to get into home automation and to get the best out of Gladys!

But before diving in headfirst, I prefer to wait and think carefully about my installation so that it is perennial, practical and secure (I work in computer security, in terms of awareness it’s not too bad :laughing:).

So I want my home automation installation to be an improvement to the house and not bring any constraints. For example, it is impossible to say: never turn off this switch, or we will never be able to control this light via WiFi!
Last crucial point: nothing is exposed on the internet (directly) or uses the manufacturers’ servers, imagine the impact on privacy or in case of attack / unavailability.

Regarding thermostats, I want to be able to manage them locally only, of course with Gladys. Before buying, I must make sure:

  • Compatible with the central heating system of the condominium (no access to the boiler)
  • There is documentation for developers
  • The model can work without the internet, locally only

TL;DR

So far, there are several solutions to ensure that everything is local:

  • Home automation protocols ZigBee, Z-Wave, Bluetooth, etc.
  • HomeKit

For ZigBee, there is zigbee2mqtt which makes integration with Gladys very simple (list of officially supported devices). The ZigBee ecosystem is very large.
But many manufacturers prefer to sell the connected object and the bridge that goes with it. So much for compatibility with these home automation protocols (ZigBee, Z-wave, etc).

This is where the compatibility of connected objects with Apple’s protocol comes into play: HomeKit. This protocol is, by its nature, designed to work locally using either the wired network (or WiFi) or Bluetooth.
By developing a HomeKit controller for Gladys, we would thus be able to force the local operation of all objects compatible with this protocol and not originally intended to work without the internet.
The project hap-controller-node could be integrated or be a source of inspiration for a Gladys module.

Research report

For the beginning of this research, two brands seemed obvious to me to connect my radiators, certainly because they are the most well-known and the best visually successful?

  • Netatmo (HomeKit, Alexa, Google) ~ €80 the head without the starter pack
  • Tado° (HomeKit, Alexa, Google) ~ €75 the head without the starter pack
  • Siterwell ~ €25 the head

Netatmo

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The design made-by stark is really pleasant, but above all, there is no light in all directions and the e-Paper screen allows you to display the information 100% of the time without consuming the battery!
This is the part I prefer.

@Tlse-vins bought several for his home and appreciates being able to control his heating from the outside. But everything necessarily goes through the mobile application.

I will contact Netatmo support, just in case :sweat_smile:

Here is the support’s response:

All the products we offer are designed to work with the cloud. The only exception concerns products compatible with HomeKit to a certain extent.

You can of course use the products without connecting them but you will lose a very large majority of the functionalities.

It will be impossible to use the API (which goes through our servers), the application, the outdoor temperature data (provided by the internet), the anticipation and many others.

Addition:

To start the HomeKit connection, you will need to enter the HomeKit code on the Thermostat label.

You will also need to temporarily connect (you can use your phone as a hotspot for example if you want to keep the local router offline) to start the procedure with the application.

In the application, go to manage my home, the Thermostat Relay then configure HomeKit. > You will need to enter the HomeKit code that will appear on the Thermostat screen or the one you have > on the label.

Here is the User manual of the Energy products

If you need more details, our Support includes the vast majority of information and procedures: https://helpcenter.netatmo.com/fr/thermostat-intelligent/search?query=homekit

Note that I insist on the fact that the Netatmo Thermostat is designed to work online.
Offline control via HomeKit is a workaround and the vast majority of the product’s advantages will not be functional.

I remain at your disposal for any additional information and I wish you a beautiful day.

In conclusion, it is possible to use Netatmo connected thermostatic heads locally only, without the internet, using Apple’s HomeKit protocol.

Tado°

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The latest model (v3) consists of:

  • The thermostatic head
  • The bridge to interconnect everything on the internet

Communications are made in 868 MHz (6LoWPAN) up to the relay, connected via RJ45 to the operator’s box. Management is then done via the mobile application.

This time, I contacted technical support directly to ask if there was any documentation for developers and if it was possible to make everything work in offline mode.
The answer is clear: no.

All tado° heating thermostats are meant to work via the Internet Bridge. The reason for this is that the thermostats do NOT connect directly to the wifi, but to the Internet Bridge via radio frequency.
Therefore, our system is only meant to work with the official tado° Internet Bridge. Third-party radio frequency receivers are not supported.

Regarding the API, we do not have an official one. There has been an API developed by our customer community, but it is not officially supported by us. Feel free to take a look here and ask questions directly to other members of the community.
However, over at our colleagues Home Assistant, a certain jimz011 indicates here and there that local operation is possible via the use of HomeKit.

Tado is great, and since 0.93 (or 0.92 if you had followed the special steps) it is possible to have them run locally through the HomeKit controller (NOT the HomeKit component, they are different things, so you DON’T need an Apple device for this at all).

Works locally and via the cloud. Been using this since November, and they are great, easy to install and setup. Batteries last pretty long.

Trust me they can be fully operated without a cloud connection! However if you want to use the Tado app then no you can’t without an internet connection. You would also be dependent on their servers.

However if you add them to Home Assistant with the HomeKit controller you can use them without an internet/cloud connection and you could do all the basic scheduling through Home Assistant (the same is true for using it with HomeKit itself).

You don’t need an Apple for this!!! (If you don’t know the difference between the HomeKit component and the HomeKit controller I will suggest looking this up as the HomeKit Controller has nothing to do with Apple!).

I hope this helps, I have been using Tado for over a year now without an internet/cloud connection!

The conclusion is the same as for Netatmo products, but the support team doesn’t seem to know.
Via the HomeKit protocol, you can force local connection only.

HomeKit

Disclaimer: I summarize here my research and what I understood from it. There may be some inaccuracies.

HomeKit is a communication protocol for connected objects developed by Apple. It relies on Wi-Fi or BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy).
It allows you to control everything from an Apple application. The main difference with others is that everything is done locally and the application contains the database of the home objects.
To control everything from the outside, you need to have an Apple TV for example, which will act as a controller instead of the iPhone.

It therefore seems that the compatibility of products with HomeKit allows them to be controlled locally, without going through the internet :slight_smile:

homebridge

Edit: One of the creators explained to me that it is a bridge between HomeKit and other protocols, allowing you to control Zigbee with SIRI via HomeKit for example.

The good news is that there is an open-source project in NodeJS that emulates the HomeKit API: https://homebridge.io/

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Homebridge is powered by Node.js and can run on any computer. Even a $5 Raspberry Pi Zero.

Does that remind you of something, Node.JS + Raspberry Pi? :wink:

On the occasion, @pierre-gilles or someone who knows well the evolutions of Gladys and the functioning of HomeKit could indicate to me if this project is a good lead or completely off topic?

There are quite a few plugins for this project, so one for Netatmo products: https://www.npmjs.com/package/homebridge-netatmo.

HomeKit Controller

The solution would therefore be to go through a HomeKit controller, which will replace the control application installed on an iPhone.
This controller will be able to communicate with all HomeKit objects and will itself be controlled by Gladys.

The presentation page of the integration of HomeKit in home assistant allows to well understand the difference between the HomeKit controller and integration with HomeKit.

Next project I will delve into:

The rest

I continue my research, hoping to be able to find a thermostatic head for my radiators :wink:

2

Hi,

that’s not cool at all! Having to go through the internet to change the temperature of a radiator… Fortunately, we can still turn the valves by hand :smiley:

3

Still, the command from the internet must not take control!

4

Edit of my initial post:

5

If this is feasible, can we install HomeKit on Docker? To avoid having a Raspberry just for that?

Will HomeKit and Gladys be able to communicate?

However, for Netatmo (if I’m not mistaken), there is still a connection to the Netatmo API.

6

I wouldn’t want to say something silly, but I get the impression that HomeKit is a protocol that allows Apple to communicate between different devices that support it.
And its particular feature is that all communications are done locally once the pairing is successful.

For me, it would therefore be possible (hypothesis) to force the thermostatic valve to use HomeKit, and I could control it without needing the internet!

As far as I know, the mentioned project also uses Docker. In any case, everything can run on the same Raspberry Pi even without Docker.

7

It is quite possible to run homebridge in a container alongside Gladys, and to make Gladys and Homebridge communicate, for example via MQTT (GitHub - arachnetech/homebridge-mqttthing: A plugin for Homebridge allowing the integration of many different accessory types using MQTT. · GitHub).

However, you will need to develop an integration on the Gladys side :slight_smile:

8

Oh, but is this just for Apple??

9

Originally, the protocol is Apple only yes! But the beauty of the home bridge project is that it will communicate with the devices instead of an Apple device, and then with Gladys (if we develop the interconnection).
So it doesn’t matter if you don’t have an iPhone (like me), since you will manage everything with Gladys.

10

Edit of my initial post:

12

Thanks a lot for your feedback and suggestions @julienL, it’s interesting and I must admit I hadn’t thought of (or found) these alternative brands.

In your setup, are you fully Zigbee? What is your experience (good and bad sides)?

Like you, I prefer the first model, I’ll see if I can find some documentation on it.
It will probably be easier to use a Zigbee model.

In any case, creating a HomeKit router is an interesting project to benefit from all compatible products, making them work locally!

14

I have delved a bit deeper into my research on ZigBee and two things stand out:

  1. The ecosystem is really interesting, it’s definitely local and « plug-and-play » (especially with zigbee2mqtt.io)!

  2. But there are few connected heads for radiators and most need to be purchased on Alibaba or (equivalent). The Siterwell is nice and inexpensive (€25) but has some issues (see home-assistant forum).

Thanks again for the suggestions, I will edit my initial post to take this into account.

15

I read it quickly but it was the HA integration that was causing the problem there

16

I rather understood that he did the integration to zigbee2mqtt.io.

17

Yes, that’s it, and it works well now :wink:

18

Hi @julienL

I was thinking of taking these heads from Moes (63.27€ for both): https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005002431040917.html

I attach great importance to the possibility of manually controlling my home automation. This model seems to allow you to turn the ring to change the temperature.

On your side, can you confirm what you are using and if it is controllable via Gladys and manually?
If it’s not yet fully managed in Gladys, I could always use the Nouvelle vidéo: Intégrer Node-RED avec Gladys Assistant en MQTT! if I understood correctly :wink:

Thanks!

19

To close this topic, I’m reposting one of my replies.

I ultimately gave up the grey market option with AliExpress & co, in favor of Domadoo or Leboncoin.

It was at Domadoo that I ordered all my thermostatic radiator heads, controlled with Zigbee2MQTT for now, and the price is far from being overpriced like on other sites.
Not to mention that delivery was faster than Amazon Prime!

https://www.domadoo.fr/en/tetes-thermostatiques/5783-moes-zigbee-30-intelligent-thermostatic-head-white.html?domid=17

What I like

  • White, unobtrusive design
  • About the same size as my previous standard heads
  • Screen activates only on demand
  • Controllable and programmable

What I like less

  • The attachment to the radiator is mainly plastic. By passing too close too quickly I broke one of them (the attachment). Fortunately Domadoo was able to sell me others (€2 each).
  • The manual isn’t very clear, but I end up using only the Zigbee2MQTT interface

All in all I recommend it; the value for money is really quite good.

20

Hello @lmilcent,
I’m using the same MOES heads as you, with which the scenes programmed in Smartlife used to work normally.
I removed the app to switch to Gladys Plus and since then the heads activate somewhat randomly. Also, in both cases, the open-window function, even when enabled in Zigbee2mqtt, does not do its job.
Do you have any practical information on these two points?

21

I’ve always used the built-in « heating schedule » function and never a specific app, so I don’t have a point of comparison.

But I have several remarks:

  1. The « open window » function is described in the user manual and it’s really simple. If the room loses at least 5 degrees (from memory) in a short time then the heating switches off. In practice it never worked for me even in the middle of winter. So I thought about creating a dedicated scene in Gladys to handle this part.

  2. I heat according to a schedule that I configure directly in the Zigbee2MQTT interface because Gladys does not manage this function which is specific to this smart thermostat/head. So Gladys never decides when to heat and to what temperature. However I have noticed that sometimes the head turns on when it doesn’t seem necessary, but this is not really impactful in practice.

  3. Gladys does not yet support the smart head’s feature that allows defining whether it is configured in « built-in heating schedule » mode or « setpoint temperature » mode.

22

Thank you, Louis, for your prompt reply and for the details of your remarks. I’ll take inspiration from them.
Wouldn’t it be interesting to request a feature for the heads, as was done for other equipment?